Exclusive Lazlow Interview

PSX2.com: For our readers who only know you through the chatterbox station in Grand Theft Auto 3, could you give a brief overview of what it is you actually do in real life?

Lazlow: I roll out of bed early, around 9:30, go outside and play Frisbee with the dog, come back in, make breakfast, read the New York Times. Then I head to the studio, which I built as part of the house, so it's like house upstairs, studio downstairs. I try to get e-mail answered and all that by like noon, and then start writing and producing. I write a technology piece that airs on 65 stations nationwide, so I spend my afternoons writing, recording, reading magazines, websites, testing products, that sort of thing.

I also travel to a lot of conferences and shows to see what's going on out there. I used to go to big shows like Internet World, but there's no action at shows like that anymore. So I find bizarre events. Like last year we traveled to the east side of the Netherlands for this huge hacker conference. That was amazing. I also write for Playboy magazine.

PSX2.com: Speaking of Playboy, your site mentions you have an article in the January issue. For those readers that are old enough or know where dad keeps his stash, can you tell us what article you did? Hey, we're all about free plugs.

Lazlow: I wrote a piece about how these new chips have been developed that will be embedded in currency. You run the dollar bill through a scanner and it reads the serial number to authenticate it and potentially track where it has been. I've been writing for the Playboy wired section a lot lately. Say what you will about that magazine, but those guys have been on the front lines of privacy and consumer rights for decades. The investigative journalism coming out of Playboy puts most magazines to shame.

PSX2.com: How did you first get started in the radio business and eventually get to the point where you had your own website (www.lazlow.com)?

Lazlow: I got a degree in journalism and right before I graduated took a look at the biz. People working at newspapers worked like dogs and you always start writing obits or something. Local TV was full of glamour queens. All the ad agencies were hiring grads starting in the media department, where you crunch numbers like how many retired people in Iowa read People magazine. I saw the local rock station and it just clicked. These people were raging like rock stars, and often with rock stars. You get paid jack right out of college, so I figured I might as well have fun and get some free tickets and stuff in the process.

Anyway, I walked in and said "I'd like to work for free." So I started writing ads and producing them for local clients, and did the occasional on-air thing. I was never crazy about the music. I've heard STP's Vaseline enough for a lifetime. It was what was between the music that I dug. When I first heard myself on the radio in an ad, I ran over and turned the radio off. It freaked me out. But putting sound together was a blast. I've always dug radio. It's lost its soul these days though. The response to the radio in GTA3 is proof of that.

PSX2.com: So what advice would you give a person who wants to be like you when they get older?

Lazlow: Man, that is a loaded question. I guess I'd have to say go for the Bauhaus effect. When I was in college my most influential professor, Birgit Wassmuth, taught me about the Bauhaus school of thought. The basic concept was to create an environment where you are surrounded by people in other practices. The Bauhaus school in Germany grouped people of all different studies: Artists, writers, craftsmen, theater people, and typography experts. If you sit around with a bunch of people interested in the same thing you are, that leads to a linear existence. Live with people that are passionate about different things, and that makes for some interesting shit.

I lived with a Marxist Professor and a Math and English major while I was working at a rock station and getting a journalism degree. Our friends would come over; we'd pop some beers and debate for hours. Cross fertilization is the key. If you're sitting around a bunch of people nodding their heads in unison, there's a problem.

PSX2.com: In your daily radio broadcast "The Technofile", you've talked about topics that cover just about every realm of the tech industry - including games. What do you feel is the main thing that has accounted for the overwhelming adoption of game consoles over the past few years?

Lazlow: Duckets. Dinero. Money. The first electronic games I played were on a computer that didn't have a screen. It printed everything out on paper. It was an IBM thing that my old man paid mad money for. You had to dial into some server halfway across the United States. This was during the BBS days. I would have stayed on that thing all day long if he'd have let me, but it was expensive.

Remember that PCs came down in price just in the last 2-3 years. Buying a computer meant shelling out at least two grand. And once you have it, are you gonna let your kid bang on the thing all night? No way man. Give the kid the $200 console and you're done. Plus, any half-wit could plug in a cartridge or throw a CD in the PlayStation. Firing up games on the PC took more steps, more knowledge, and if you did something wrong and blew out the CMOS, you're life's a mess for a few days. I think it was a price point issue, pure and simple.

PSX2.com: How do you think the addition of high-speed internet connections (i.e. DSL, Cable) to the next-generation of consoles will affect gaming as we know it today? Do you think this will in a way detract some people from their computer chairs and into their couches instead?

Lazlow: From what I see at all the conventions and from talking to experts in the industry, I think it's going to head to a networked environment in the home. When I first played Doom over the net in the early 90's I knew this was where it was headed with consoles. After covering the Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas this month, I do have some concerns. Every manufacturer wants to be the home entertainment device for the household. Dish Network has a new service coming out where you can play interactive games. All the stereo companies are trying to put out home media servers where you send content wirelessly to other TVs in the house. Sony announced they wanted to make the console [PS2] a home entertainment box. Microsoft saw that and they jumped into the game, despite how Gates has said over and over again they're not getting into hardware.

With all of these choices, somebody has got to come up with a standard. Is it Bluetooth? 802.11b? If consoles are going to go on the net, then you need to make it more like a computer. Xbox did that somewhat. But a console should then have a PCMCIA port for a wireless card, a regular network jack, and modem. That way people can adapt this thing to whatever standard they have in the home. And I wonder if subscription fees are going to follow in order to play head-to-head.

I did a piece recently about how people are tired of subscription fees. Think about it. You have a cable bill, Internet bill, mobile phone bill and several other monthly fees. We're chucking out $150-$200 extra per month for these things. Someone comes out with another monthly service and its like "great, here's another one."

PSX2.com[b]: Do you think consoles (or whatever form they end up taking in the future) will ever replace the PC as far as non-work apps go?

[b]Lazlow: Eventually, but that's a long way off. I say that because people are buggin' right now. We've got too much going on. You always know a culture is in trouble when it looks back for the last sane moment it ever knew. You can see that in how much media we have at our disposal and how we recycle the same old bullshit. I agree with the pundits that say the PC will be the stereo will be the VCR will be the Tivo will be the PlayStation.

We've been going at rocket speed for the last 100 years. Somebody said this was supposed to make our lives simpler. Guess what, it ain't. How many times has somebody called you to come fix their broken electronic shit? How much time do you spend answering e-mail? Probably too much. To answer your question, the console and the PC are going to be one soon. It's going to get delivered over your high-speed internet connection. No more of this waiting at Toys R Us to get the latest game. When it comes out, it will be downloaded to your system overnight. Done. Thanks for playing.

PSX2.com: Which console out of the Xbox, GameCube and PlayStation 2 do you think will come out on top at the end of this generation's console wars and why? What advantage does that console have that the other two are lacking?

Lazlow: I interviewed some people in the industry about this recently. Before the holidays, the number one question I got was "which console do I buy?" Nintendo is always going to have a market share among younger kids. Why? Pokémon. Nintendo had the number one selling title for quite a while with that stuff, and they're going to continue to market to the younger crowd. Older kids want a different gaming experience.

I think people in the game industry are still wary of Microsoft. They'll develop for it, but PlayStation has been their bread and butter. Plus, there are a ton of games for PlayStation and not a lot for Xbox. That being said, we are like short attention span theater these days. You get a console, play it for a year or more, and move on to the next release. Xbox will have a market share for a while, and they may give Sony a run for their money, but in the end, I've seen Microsoft's track record. Their operating systems have a lot of holes in them. Their Outbreak, I mean Outlook software is a virus writer's dream. They are phenomenal marketers. Their code leaves a lot to be desired. PlayStation was built on a Linux platform. There's some serious wisdom in that.

PSX2.com: How does the PlayStation being built on a Linux platform make it better than Microsoft's?

Lazlow: You want to get me on the open source debate? It's about evolution. There are some that would argue the number one roadblock to innovation in the computing field is Microsoft's firm grip on their code. It's their platform, their code, period. You can play with our Legos but leave them at the door when you leave. There's a reason IBM has moved to Linux for their servers. A community can evolve faster than the ruler.

My father always says that technology evolves faster than the government or regulation can handle. Palm Pilot went for the open source model. How many people do you know that work on a PalmOS based device as opposed to a [Windows] CE device? There's your answer to open source.

PSX2.com: Changing the subject a little, I just have to ask if you're going to be working with DMA Design on the next Grand Theft Auto, and if so, what kind of radio will be featured in it?

Lazlow: I honestly don't know. I didn't know I was going to be working on GTA3. I get questions all the time like "How did you get a nationally syndicated radio feature," or "How did you start working in video games?" If I knew the answer to those, and could lay it out for people in a logical path, I'd be like a super high school guidance counselor. Working on GTA3 was out of nowhere.

I body board at a local beach here in Long Island, and we get some pretty killer waves. There's an area where a lot of body boarders hang out. Mostly you hang out in the water, waiting for the next set to come in. There's a wide group of people there from all walks of life, from carpenters to CEO's. You get to know everyone by their nicknames and shoot the shit in the water. I'd been talking to this British dude in the water for months, and I said something about E3 [Electronic Entertainment Expo] and he was like "I'm going to E3." Come to find out he was a head guy over at Rockstar Games.

We talked a lot about the industry, mostly me picking his brain. I love talking to people about what they do. Anyway, after a few months of talking trash in the water, he invited me to come into the Rockstar offices and take a look around. I met Dan Houser and we all started talking about GTA3. Pretty soon I was writing with him in these intense writing sessions for GTA3. Dan Houser is the most creative and funny person I've ever met.

I never really cared about money on the whole thing. You can make great money doing mundane stuff like selling insurance. When you are in a situation with somebody that is great to work with, and you have a great time, it's amazing. There are a lot of miserable people out there making bank. When you do something you wake up smiling about, congrats, you've won. If they ask me to do stuff on other games I'm definitely down with it.

PSX2.com: So if Dan Houser asks you to do a station similar to chatterbox for GTA4, would you do it all again?

Lazlow: There are a lot of bands who keep releasing the same album. It's no good. Dan Houser would never ask me to do the same thing again. He's a creative genius. I've hung out with him, chillin' on the beach and he's said shit that had me rolling. I tell people to watch any game Rockstar comes out with. I've visited a lot of game companies, but Rockstar is the coolest. I never considered working on a game for a second until I met the Rockstar guys. There's some amazing talent in that place. I've learned there are a lot of factors to video game production, but in my mind GTA3 was a success because of the guys at DMA and Dan Houser. I'd work with him at a truck stop selling lottery tickets.

PSX2.com: When playing the game, do you ever listen to yourself on Chatterbox?

Lazlow: Yeah, it's too distracting though. I produced it, and while I'm trying to focus on running from the cops or something, my mind will start to wander. I've had people e-mail me and say they can't play the game while listening to Chatterbox because they laugh their ass off. That's cool.

PSX2.com: How was the radio show produced? Was it already pre-scripted when you got to the studio?

Lazlow: Sort of. Dan Houser and I got together once or twice a week for months. We'd order anchovy-onion pizzas, Diet Coke and write like crazy. We'd type up rough ideas on a laptop, banging Diet Coke like mad. After that I'd think of people to do the radio bits. If you know anyone in radio, they are like drifters. Radio people move around a lot.

I called up all my friends in radio all over, and sent them scripts. Some threw it in the trash, did their own thing and sent me a DAT. Others ad-libbed on top of it. The credits read like a friends of Lazlow tour. There are people I went to college with in the game. The guy at the beer store down the street from me is in it. My next door neighbor's kids are in it. I grabbed everyone and said "here, read this."

PSX2.com: How did Rockstar go about keeping all of your callers and guests quiet about the game while it was in development?

Lazlow: It was never an issue. This industry lives in a bubble. The whole industry takes itself way too seriously. That's why I liked working with Rockstar and DMA. It was more about hanging out with some amazingly talented people, coming up with great ideas, and trying them out. And what's going to happen? Is my old college roommate going to call up the trades and say "yo, here's the dope. I played a guy in a PlayStation game!" Work with great people and the cool stuff will follow. Constantly put locks on the doors and get all control freakish and you're back to the Linux vs. Microsoft debate. People get pretty uninspired in a padded room.

PSX2.com: If you were driving around Liberty City, what radio station would you flip on?

Lazlow: I let the game decide. DMA did an incredible job with the engine on this thing.

PSX2.com: If you had to pick one station out of the eight featured in the game, which would you choose?

Lazlow: DoubleCleff. There are some great bits in there that nobody's got yet.

PSX2.com: How do you feel about the gameplay in regards to it being "toned down" because of its intense graphic nature? Do you feel it's necessary?

Lazlow: I've always been confused by the debate over video games. People constantly point to popular media and blame it for the problems of a select few. Rock bands have been dragged into court and accused of making kids commit crimes! It's like that old Bobcat Goldthwait bit "My kid listened to a Black Sabbath record and committed suicide. Well maybe your heroin addiction and recent divorce may have something to do with it."

On the Technofile I try to bring historical perspective to current issues, because I don't feel that happens enough today. The same witch hunt that goes on with video games happened with comic books. I spoke with Stan Lee of Marvel comics last year about this. When I brought it up he rolled his eyes like "oh brutha I could go on for days." These guys were dragged before Congress; just like rock bands were later on, to defend themselves. You can go to Wal-Mart and buy a shotgun, but they force record companies to bleep out profanity in CDs? If you're in a dark alley, who are you afraid of, the kid with a video game or the one with the shotgun?

Yeah, there are magazines, music, websites and games that parents should keep their kids from seeing until they are older. But that's a parent's responsibility. The argument that SOME parents aren't going to control their kids, so let's outlaw media is asinine. Their logic is we can't outlaw bad parents, so let's go after video games and comic books. We live in a culture that is so consumption oriented, parents feel they have to work like crazy to afford that SUV, big screen TV, 300 channels of cable, and then expect society to raise their kids while they're at work. The rest of the world thinks we're lunatics by the way. Travel around Europe and talk to a few people. They watch the same movies and play the same video games we do, but they don't try to ban them, and strangely don't have metal detectors in schools.

PSX2.com: We're backtracking a bit, but your on-air persona on Chatterbox seems to lean a bit to the left. Now I'm the last person to actually bring up politics after my loving mom crammed conservative talk radio down my throat for 17 years, but I'm curious to see where you stand on most of the issues. The previous response to game violence seems to peg you somewhere in the middle.

Lazlow: The left is right. The right is left. By that I mean people try to peg themselves somewhere on a pendulum and that's crazy. Remember that ship ride at the state fair or theme park that rocks back and forth? Life is like that, except it goes in a circle occasionally. People were amazed that during the protests in Seattle you had stereotypically liberal people next to stereotypical conservative people angry about the same things. These people all had one thing in common; they're working people. You'd be amazed at how much hippies and rednecks get along when their jobs are shipped off. Farms are closing, family businesses are closing, and Republicrats are cashing in on the action.

Chatterbox was a parody of talk radio and extremists who can't see past the bumper on their SUV or their protest flag. I could go on for days about where I stand on these issues. I worked on the Nader campaign. If you read about the Green party and the spooky stuff that was done during the last election by the Republicrats to keep him off the air, it will bug you out. Start at www.michaelmoore.com.

PSX2.com: You don't sound like an uber-hardcore gamer, so I'm curious what kind of games you do like, and after playing a game as open-ended as GTA3, did it change your overall view of what games could be, or was it just more of a "oh shit, I can do this... and this... and this..." type reaction?

Lazlow: I was floored by GTA3. The president of the company came by my place at like 1AM when the game came out. I put it in and went, "Holy shit. This is going to be a while." I've played games for years. I used to drag my PC over to my boy Kelly's house, network, and play Doom until 9AM. We moved on to Quake, [Serious] Sam, all that. He taught me a valuable lesson though. He was always about creating levels. I love playing games. But it's great to play a game with your friends where you helped create the level. That's the ultimate smile.